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Religion and Gay Marriage

2012-05-15 · John · watch on YouTube · US politics & society · advocacy activism

Following Hank's video, John argues that 'traditional marriage' has never been simply one man and one woman wed in church, that tying legal marriage to a religious covenant breaks down, and that denying gay couples the rights of marriage is discrimination.

What is said

00:00:00 — Reply to Hank's marriage-equality video; approaching gay marriage from a religious perspective; first define marriage (figures as men and women)

  • ★★ John liked Hank's Friday video on marriage equality and approaches gay marriage from a specifically religious perspective, starting by asking what marriage is. — 00:00:00
  • ★★ The description invites viewers to continue the conversation in comments, remembering that Nerdfighteria is about respect and generosity. — 00:00:00 · Nerdfighteria

00:00:17 — 'Traditional marriage' was not one man and one woman (David, Solomon) and church weddings were uncommon until the 16th century

  • ★★★ John says 'traditional marriage' as one man and one woman is inaccurate: in the Bible King David married 18 women and Solomon 700, plus 300 concubines. — 00:00:17
  • ★★ John says almost everything associated with traditional weddings, from white dresses and monogamy to scripture readings and saying 'I do', is not very traditional. — 00:00:38
  • ★★★ John says that for most of Christian history until the 16th century marriages rarely happened in churches, with clergy or witnesses; people married by agreeing to, and often told the church, which kept records. — 00:00:47

00:01:06 — Not everyone is a man or a woman: about 0.5% of people are intersex; North Carolina's law makes their marriages unclear

  • ★★★ John says one-man-one-woman assumes everyone is a man or a woman, which was never so: about 0.5% of people have always been intersex (e.g. XXY, XYY, androgen insensitivity syndrome). — 00:01:06
  • ★★★ John says many intersex people have married historically without the social order collapsing, but laws like North Carolina's just-voted one make it unclear whether they may marry anyone. — 00:01:30

00:01:41 — Marriage as a covenant with God; limiting legal benefits to covenant marriages breaks down (Hank and Katherine's field wedding)

  • ★★ John explains that for many religious people, including Christians, Jews and Muslims, marriage is a covenant, a promise to God to stay together for life, and only real marriage if it involves that covenant. — 00:01:43
  • ★★ John explains that for lots of those believers gay marriage is impossible, since they hold homosexual relationships inherently sinful, so God cannot bless the union; many religious people and institutions disagree. — 00:01:57
  • ★★ John won't try to convince religious people or institutions holding that view that they are wrong: it won't work, and the comments on Hank's last video were discouraging. — 00:02:09
  • ★★★ John argues that limiting marriage's legal benefits to covenant marriages creates a huge problem: Hank and Katherine, wed in a field, might lose hospital visits, custody or joint taxes, and which churches would count? — 00:02:19 · Katherine Green, Hank Green
  • ★ John notes that Hank and Katherine married in a field, while John married in a church. — 00:02:27 · Katherine Green, Hank Green

00:02:44 — Marriages are defined by the people inside them; gay marriage already exists; denying its rights is discrimination; sign-off

  • ★★★ John says that line of thinking gives no good legal definition: marriages are intensely personal and defined not by courts or voters but by the people inside them. — 00:02:44 > «…defined not by courts or by voters, but by the people who live inside of them.»
  • ★★★ John calls traditional marriage a private, daily, lifelong commitment, and says gay marriage can't be made illegal because it already happens and always has. — 00:02:54
  • ★★★ John says that in most of the world gay people are denied the rights and obligations of their marriages, which is simply discrimination. — 00:03:09
  • ★★ John says there will be marriages and married people you don't like, but whoever is marrying, those marriages won't affect yours. — 00:03:17

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