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Religion and Gay Marriage

2012-05-15 · letter vlog · John · 3:30 · watch on YouTube

Topic: US politics & society (also: History & curiosities) · mode: Advocacy & fundraising · tags: timely hook, civic or action cta

Following Hank's video, John argues that 'traditional marriage' has never been simply one man and one woman wed in church, that tying legal marriage to a religious covenant breaks down, and that denying gay couples the rights of marriage is discrimination.

What is said

The parts of the video and what is said in each (★ — how much it matters to the video).

00:00:00 — Reply to Hank's marriage-equality video; approaching gay marriage from a religious perspective; first define marriage (figures as men and women)

  • ★★ John liked Hank's Friday video on marriage equality and approaches gay marriage from a specifically religious perspective, starting by asking what marriage is. — 00:00:00

00:00:17 — 'Traditional marriage' was not one man and one woman (David, Solomon) and church weddings were uncommon until the 16th century

  • ★★★ John says 'traditional marriage' as one man and one woman is inaccurate: in the Bible King David married 18 women and Solomon 700, plus 300 concubines. — 00:00:17
  • ★★ John says almost everything associated with traditional weddings, from white dresses and monogamy to scripture readings and saying 'I do', is not very traditional. — 00:00:38
  • ★★★ John says that for most of Christian history until the 16th century marriages rarely happened in churches, with clergy or witnesses; people married by agreeing to, and often told the church, which kept records. — 00:00:47

00:01:06 — Not everyone is a man or a woman: about 0.5% of people are intersex; North Carolina's law makes their marriages unclear

  • ★★★ John says one-man-one-woman assumes everyone is a man or a woman, which was never so: about 0.5% of people have always been intersex (e.g. XXY, XYY, androgen insensitivity syndrome). — 00:01:06
  • ★★★ John says many intersex people have married historically without the social order collapsing, but laws like North Carolina's just-voted one make it unclear whether they may marry anyone. — 00:01:30 · the social order

00:01:41 — Marriage as a covenant with God; limiting legal benefits to covenant marriages breaks down (Hank and Katherine's field wedding)

  • ★★ John explains that for many religious people, including Christians, Jews and Muslims, marriage is a covenant, a promise to God to stay together for life, and only real marriage if it involves that covenant. — 00:01:43
  • ★★ John explains that for lots of those believers gay marriage is impossible, since they hold homosexual relationships inherently sinful, so God cannot bless the union; many religious people and institutions disagree. — 00:01:57
  • ★★ John won't try to convince religious people or institutions holding that view that they are wrong: it won't work, and the comments on Hank's last video were discouraging. — 00:02:09
  • ★★★ John argues that limiting marriage's legal benefits to covenant marriages creates a huge problem: Hank and Katherine, wed in a field, might lose hospital visits, custody or joint taxes, and which churches would count? — 00:02:19 · Katherine Green, Hank Green
  • ★ John notes that Hank and Katherine married in a field, while John married in a church. — 00:02:27 · Katherine Green, Hank Green

00:02:44 — Marriages are defined by the people inside them; gay marriage already exists; denying its rights is discrimination; sign-off

  • ★★★ John says that line of thinking gives no good legal definition: marriages are intensely personal and defined not by courts or voters but by the people inside them. — 00:02:44

    “…defined not by courts or by voters, but by the people who live inside of them.”

  • ★★★ John calls traditional marriage a private, daily, lifelong commitment, and says gay marriage can't be made illegal because it already happens and always has. — 00:02:54

  • ★★★ John says that in most of the world gay people are denied the rights and obligations of their marriages, which is simply discrimination. — 00:03:09
  • ★★ John says there will be marriages and married people you don't like, but whoever is marrying, those marriages won't affect yours. — 00:03:17

In the description and comments

  • ★★ The description invites viewers to continue the conversation in comments, remembering that Nerdfighteria is about respect and generosity. — video description · Nerdfighteria

Threads in this video

Mentioned

Central: intersex · religion · religious covenant · same-sex marriage

Also: People: Katherine Green

Works: Bible

Concepts: Androgen insensitivity syndrome · Christianity · homophobia · Islam · Judaism

Places: North Carolina

Policies: North Carolina Amendment 1

Myths: David (religious figure (tradition=Judaism)) · Solomon

Also centred on intersex: Sex, Sports, and Caster Semenya

Also centred on religion: On Iran, Islam, and Amazingly Stupid Comments · On Religion · On Religion (Redux) · Death, Love, and John's Religion: The Big Questions Take Over Question Tuesday

Also centred on same-sex marriage: Your Arguments Are Invalid: Gay Marriage

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